Mindset Matters: How to Overcome Job Search Stress & Setbacks

Lori Cole (00:03):

Well, let’s go ahead and get started. I’m Lori Cole, I’m a certified career coach and content creator and advisor here at iHire. And I want to give you a warm welcome to today’s webinar. Mindset Matters, how to Overcome Job Search, stress and Setbacks. So before we jump in, a quick reminder to make the most of the platform that sets your fingertips today. You can move and resize the widgets on your screen and feel free to explore additional resources we’ve linked in the content area. If you have questions during the session, use that ask a question widget that is open the entire time people have started using it already, and our team will be monitoring the queue and we will get to as many as we can at the end of the webinar. Also, keep an eye on your inbox tomorrow. You’ll get a recording of this webinar just in case you want to rewatch it or share it with someone.

(01:03):

And I’ll just tell you upfront, we are aware that there’s a little bit of a lag or a glitch with Hannah’s with her internet connection, but we’re going to make the most of it here because we can hear just fine. But sometimes the video is a little bit laggy, so it’s not your screen, it’s probably just the internet connection. So with that, I am going to introduce Hannah if I can get the slide changed. Okay. I did it too fast. Maybe it’s my internet connection. Hold on for a second. Okay, I think, no, I’m not in the right place.

(01:50):

Oh no, here we go. I hope everybody can see that. So this is Hannah Rose. Hannah is a nationally certified counselor, an advanced clinical relapse prevention specialist, and a licensed clinical supervisor and professional counselor. She’s also trained in EMDR and Brené Brown Dare to Lead program. She’s also the founder of Rose Wellness, a fully remote private practice based in Maryland. And more recently she just launched the Thriving Practice Academy. And so she’s helping other therapists grow their practices with confidence and clarity. And if you’re thinking she looks familiar, you might recognize her from season 45 of Survivor. Her early exit from the show made headlines and sparked some powerful conversations about boundaries, self-awareness and letting go of shame. Also, she’s one of our favorite webinar presenters and we’re just thrilled to have her back. So Hannah, thank you so much for being here.

Hannah Rose (03:00):

Thank you so much for having me. I’m so humbled by that introduction. I’m like, no it’s not. We’ll talk about this, but the internal narrative made so much of a difference and I was just noticing mine.

Lori Cole (03:15):

Alright, let’s start with a quick poll here. Have you noticed your job search taking a toll on your mental health? And I already see emojis starting. Find that emoji widget and use it. Hannah is going to say so much that will resonate with you today. Here they come. And just feel free to use that emoji widget because that will really help her to know that she has said something that has hit home with you. So for our poll, have you noticed your job search taking a toll on your mental health? Yes. No. Or unsure? So while we’re waiting for those poll results, we are going to do an overview of what we’re going to cover today. So we’re going to cover how job search stress affects your mindset and momentum. Seven practical ways to reduce the job search stress including setting up routines, goal setting, mindset shifts and self-care and how to overcome imposter syndrome and setbacks along the way. So we’ve got a ton to cover. Let’s look at our poll results. Alright. A lot of people are stressed out by the job search. Hannah, is that usually what you find when you’re talking to your own clients?

Hannah Rose (04:37):

It is. I think there’s often a lot of discomfort, whether it’s stress or anxiety. I mean there’s a whole range of emotions and experiences that we can have when we don’t have control. And so being in a job search is essentially being in between one thing and another and that’s the source of a lot of stress and fear and anxiety for people. I also love that 7% of people said unsure because that’s something we’re going to talk about is how to be more sure and get more clarity about what it is we’re thinking and feeling instead of just navigating life on autopilot, which a lot of us are used to because we’re quite conditioned to do that.

Lori Cole (05:26):

And my internet is a little bit laggy too. Alright, let’s start by addressing something A lot of us feel we don’t always have control over the search that the job search is taking on our mental health. Hannah, what does the data and your experience tell us?

Hannah Rose (05:46):

Yeah, I think something negatively impacting our mental health that can include such a wide array of experiences. It’s not surprising to me that the numbers we’re are 46.8, right? Almost half. I also always question the validity of any kind of self-report because oftentimes we shame ourselves into thinking I shouldn’t feel this way, so I’m going to answer no. Even though the real answer is yes. So I would argue that in my personal and professional experience, that number is higher than half. And then the job security piece makes so much sense for me, especially in 2025. We’ve got ai, we’ve got government shutdowns, I mean we’ve got a lot of stuff going on depending on what field you’re in and in general, I just think people are afraid. People are afraid about stability and consistency. And again, it’s coming back to anxiety manifesting when we don’t know, we don’t have a map, we don’t know the answer. And the reality is that is life. We just like to live in the illusion of control that we do have the answer and we know how everything’s going to go, but this all just makes sense to me. And then the piece about long-term stress, impairing cognitive abilities and job search getting even harder, we’re going to talk a lot more about that as the webinar goes on.

Lori Cole (07:07):

Yeah, I mean it can affect so much. If you’re not sleeping at night, then you’re not your best the next day and it’s just a vicious cycle. Let’s start by addressing something. A lot of us, oh nope, sit wrong one again. Hold on for a second. Setting up a routine. Here we go. I know from personal experience or routine is very helpful for me. I am all about the structure. What do you feel about it as far as the job search goes, Hannah?

Hannah Rose (07:40):

Well, I also am very routine oriented, but it comes and goes. So there are some seasons or eras if you will, of my life where routine and structure really serves me. And there’s other times where I actually really flourish in the spontaneity of I’m going to play it by ear, I’m going to see how I feel and then I’m going to go from there. And so one thing I always suggest is tailor your routine, which doesn’t have to look like the same exact schedule every single day, tailor whatever your routine is to what works best for you. Just because someone else has a really type A routine doesn’t mean that’s going to you and work for you. And so the biggest thing here is figuring out where you are most effective, where you’re most productive. If that means doing more things at night, do it. If that means doing more things in the morning, do that. If you know that putting an exercise in the middle of your day is helpful or maybe in the morning do that, my whole point is there is no one size fits all. And in this day and age, I think a lot of us are looking for that. We’re looking for the answer and there isn’t. Create a routine that works for you, whatever that looks like.

Lori Cole (08:57):

I love to time block my day, so it really is helpful for me if I can go to my calendar and say, I’ve allotted an hour and a half to do this one piece of the project that helps to keep me focused, but that is just me. There’s a lot of other calendars I see from other people that it’s just everything is empty and that would make me feel like I wasn’t really accomplishing anything. But again, again, I said that’s just me. What about setting realistic goals? Tell us. We know that a huge goals are good, but a lot of times it’s the little smaller steps to those goals that can make all the difference.

Hannah Rose (09:52):

So this is where we start to get into narrative therapy, which is essentially the story that we’re telling ourselves about ourselves and the world and our experiences. And so if you have a to-do list and all of the goals are huge, as in start a new job and kill it and get a bonus, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, that’s great. And what can happen when it may be taking time to reach those goals is self-efficacy. The belief that we can do something can start to decrease without us even knowing it. And so one thing that I love doing is I’ll make a to-do list, I don’t know, a couple hours after I wake up maybe the middle of the day and I’ll put things on that list that I’ve already completed because it boosts my sense of self-efficacy. I’m like, I made my bed today, I am killing it.

(10:43):

And that is really huge when we’re in a job search and also in life in general because our sense of self is at the core of how we live our lives. And we’ll talk about this a little bit later, but if I’m setting smaller attainable goals and I’m crossing those off my list, it’s going to boost productivity, it’s going to boost energy, it’s going to boost a belief in self. And so I think it’s really important to do that. I use the notes app on my phone and there’s a feature where you could do bullet points that when you click them, you fill out and then go to the bottom If you have an iPhone. And I love that. Like okay, I want to do this, this, this and this, and I put things on there that don’t just have to do with my big long-term goals.

(11:28):

I’m actually not a big long-term girl gal goal. I’m not a big long-term goal gal. I am much more like feeling it out in the moment and going from there. There’s pros and cons to that and we’re all different, but I’ll put things on my to-do list, take some time to play the drums. I started learning the drums this year and then it’s like you said Lori, I’m time blocking things that actually also bring me joy. And so if you have to time block eating a meal, do that, but put these goals all together instead of just, I need to secure a job by this date and this is exactly the field it has to be in. Those are great goals to have, but what about smaller, more manageable chunks that boost our self-efficacy?

Lori Cole (12:18):

Alright, let’s talk about getting organized. What are some of the main things that we can do in our job search? I just see somebody said, I’m a drummer too in the chat. What can people do in their job search to just feel like they are more organized and they are keeping track of all these applications they’re sending?

Hannah Rose (12:43):

Just like the routine. I really believe this one needs to be tailored to our individual preferences. And so if having paper, pen and paper is what works for you, don’t migrate everything to Google spreadsheets or whatever. If that doesn’t call to you, don’t do it. There is no wrong answer here. It’s about how can I stay organized? For me it is Google Drive, it is my notes app paperless. I’m actually quite a disorganized organized human, but I just know what works for me and I do that and sometimes I’ll try out new methods of organization and keeping track and I don’t love it, but I get to change. That’s also let’s just acknowledge that we are allowed to change our minds about literally anything. I can’t stress that enough. I would love to do a whole webinar about emotional health in general, but I’ll keep it on topic.

(13:37):

So finding ways to track, these are the applications I’ve submitted, this is the date that I submitted them. This was my first interview, this is what I’m supposed to hear back, figure out what works for you. But keeping track is super helpful, especially if you’re applying to numerous jobs, which I would encourage you to do spreadsheets if they call to you. Awesome. Same thing with the clean and organized space for your home. I really marvel at how some people really thrive in organized chaos where they just have their desk. It’s like you can’t even see the desk itself, but they know where everything is. That’s great. Let’s not shame that it doesn’t have to be clean to the standard that maybe we think it’s supposed to be. I just think there are so many tiny ways we can shame ourselves into thinking we’re doing things wrong and that’s actually more of a problem than doing things the way we think we’re supposed to.

(14:33):

So whatever that organization looks like to you, listen to that. If you find yourself stressed out when there’s all this stuff on your desk or you’re working on your couch and there’s no organization, that’s something to listen to and maybe try to incorporate new methods of organizations, organization. I love the topic of keeping several interview outfits ready to go. I’m not really a clothes person. And so the good thing is if you are having an interview and it is virtual, you’ve only got to think about from here up, which is, I mean I’m not wearing wearing sweatpants under. And let’s normalize that. It’s like we are in a time that you only have to plan from here up, but if you know might have to stand up because your dog is going to be doing something crazy, which might happen in the course of this webinar, plan for that, right?

(15:30):

If you have in-person interviews, plan for that. But when you can get organized and plan ahead, it’s kind of like meal prepping for your interview. Do you have your resume or your portfolio ready to go? Do you have those outfits on deck? If you can minimize the amount that you’re going to have to plan on the day of the interview, that’s the best. I’m also saying things I totally should do and have never done. So I also just want to acknowledge that it’s okay to not do this all the time. And the worst thing we can do is say, I should do, I should have done this. I should do that. As famous psychologist Albert Ellis says, don’t should on yourself. Love it. That’s my soapbox of the day.

Lori Cole (16:13):

Yeah, love it. Just to give, iHire a little bit of a promotion here. We do have a phenomenal job tracker in our candidate tools and it will just keep track of everything for you. It lets you put in notes. So it’s very, very helpful if you’re trying to figure out where you’ve put your last a hundred applications. All right, so shifting your mindset, the next one will really hit home for a lot of us setbacks in your job search and in life in general are very frustrating. Hannah, how can we start changing the way that we look at rejection and those setbacks?

Hannah Rose (17:03):

I mean this one slide I can talk about for the rest of my life because mindset, the only thing that we actually have control of over is our reaction to life and the stimuli around us. We don’t feel like we have control over it because we’re often conditioned into specific patterns and narratives and habits, but it is the only thing we can actually control. But it’s super empowering to be able to change our reaction to life. So first and foremost, back to that narrative therapy piece, looking at what is the story I’m telling myself about this? Because there’s what happens, happens objectively. You applied for a job you wanted that you didn’t get the job. Those are the facts. But what’s the story we bring to it? There’s one of my favorite acronyms from something called Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. It’s like the one thing I retained from college, not going to lie, and I love it.

(18:06):

And it’s called the REBT method of combating cognitive distortions. And I’m going to run through it really quickly, but basically the acronym is A, B, C, right? A is the activating event. In this case, the activating event is experiencing a rejection. Even that there’s a story attached to that. I would even dilute it even more and say the activating event is not getting the job right. B, so that was A B is the belief that follows and it’s often a core irrational belief. So I’m going to ask all of you this hypothetically. I mean you can answer it in the chat actually, but if you apply for a job and you don’t get that job, what is a belief about yourself that might come from that? And Lori, I’ll just ask you also because here with me, what is a belief you may have about yourself, rational or not?

Lori Cole (19:01):

That maybe I wasn’t smart enough or I was underqualified?

Hannah Rose (19:06):

Yeah. So the first one to me is the indicator that there is a shame narrative. And just as a recap, if you’re not familiar with this guilt, we always say guilt and shame. They are two very different processes. Guilt is I feel badly, God, I feel really badly that I didn’t get the job valid. Motivating sometimes to change or to pivot or guilt is actually a healthy process. Shame is I am bad. I am not good enough, I am not smart enough, I am too much. Any I am not Blank enough is a shame narrative. And so guilt is a feeling. Shame is swallowing that feeling and saying, this is who I am. If you’ve ever uttered the statement, well this is just how I am or this is just who I am. Not only is that not factual, but it actually increases the chances that we will continue to enact that same behavior.

(20:09):

This is just like fun psychology facts. So A is the activating event. B is the belief that follows, I don’t get the job. I’m not smart enough. C, C is the consequence of the B. So if I don’t believe I’m smart enough, here’s a fun fact about our psyche, the core beliefs that we hold about ourselves, our brain will inadvertently create scenarios to validate that core belief. So that you say, see, I knew I wasn’t smart enough. See, I knew I was unlovable. I’m keeping it on job search, but this really pertains to relationships, which is my favorite topic of all time. And so most humans operate on an A, B, C loop. Something happens. There’s a core irrational belief that we’re not even aware of, and then there’s the consequence of the core irrational belief and we just go from A, B, C. But here’s the tool that I’m offering.

(21:07):

D, D is disputing the core irrational belief. And what that requires of us is to slow down enough to notice what is the story I’m telling myself. That statement, that question is so powerful because it starts to incorporate a level of nonjudgmental awareness like an observer. Okay, I’m not going to judge it, I’m just going to notice. I’m just going to notice. And once we’re able to, first of all, oh, I clock that I’m having this narrative, I can then dispute it. Is this true? What evidence do I have that this is true? Would this statement hold up in a court of law? Is it objective fact? Can I enlist people in my life who I love and who support me about this? Hey, I’m having this shame narrative. The more language we have to communicate what we’re experiencing, the better. I’ll plug a book Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown all about language.

(22:08):

It’s phenomenal. So to sum it up, activating event belief that follows consequence of the belief, but then we can dispute the belief and then we get to E, which is the effects of disputing the core irrational belief. For me, the level of self-esteem that I get to experience today because I’m able to notice my narratives and say, well wait, that’s not true. And I’m not going to subscribe to that narrative. I had this happen today. I mean, it’s a daily practice. This isn’t like I’m going to wake up tomorrow and I’m going to have all the self-esteem in the world. It is a daily practice. And if that sounds overwhelming, just try practicing it a little bit today, which is literally all that’s in your control anyway. So regarding shifting your mindset, I think when we noticing the language that we use, so calling something a failure, especially calling ourselves a failure, even calling it a setback.

(23:13):

This is just my opinion. I’m a firm believer that everything is inherently neutral and as humans, we bring meaning to it. And that’s where we have control. What meaning am I going to choose to bring to this? So when I experience a rejection, the meaning that I choose to bring to it is maybe I dodged a bullet. Maybe it wasn’t supposed to go that way because who knows? And I think about that, about my life and the jobs that I haven’t gotten, the jobs that I have, the people that I’ve dated, people I’ve ended relationships with. It’s always like this is the end of the world. Until the hindsight of, wow, I’m really glad that happened because it led me here.

(23:55):

And if you’re not at that point yet, this is maybe a hot take, but I like to trust the universe and my part in it and know that for me, I think some level of faith, whatever you believe in or don’t believe in, lean into the things that work for you. I guess I’ll just say that I’ll also share candidly that I’ve been in recovery since I was 20. And there’s a whole like, Hey, I’m not in charge always. It’s the serenity prayer, which you can make very academic by just saying, where do I have control? Can I let go of the thing that I don’t have control about and can I take action where I do have control? That’s all that is. And so for me, that’s been a beacon of my life because it’s how I was able to walk through really hard things.

(24:50):

And so I just think those kinds of tools are so accessible. I’m talking a lot because this is one of my favorite topics of all time and I’m going to wrap it up, but mindset is literally everything. You can get your speaking from experience, you can get your dream job, you can accomplish all of your goals. And if you’ve been living in fulfillment trap, which is when I get this, I’ll feel this. You’ll never feel whole. I have literally gotten to the top of my mountains and been like, what? Now I’m purposeless. And that’s not a lack of gratitude. It’s that there was fulfillment trap along the way. And so it’s not about everything externally coming to fruition the way you want to. It’s about the inside job of our mindset and that there’s so much work we can do there. And to me it’s just so exciting that we get to that we have frontal lobes that allow us to think about this. Okay, I’m done with that slide. Well,

Lori Cole (25:51):

There were about six things on that. I was like, I want to go here, I want to go here. But it’s going to really get us off track if we start talking about those things. But I think just having the emotional intelligence to be able to look at that situation from the 10,000 foot view and say, okay, was this, this is not the end of my world. So helpful for you to frame it like that.

Hannah Rose (26:21):

And there’s so many books. There’s so many books that are helpful, like Radical Acceptance, great book. Okay. Oh no, this is also a slide. Oh no. Alright, go ahead. I know

Lori Cole (26:30):

Imposter syndrome. I know that you love this topic too. So even with people with tons of experience, they will experience imposter syndrome. Tell us how to stop guessing ourselves.

Hannah Rose (26:45):

Oh my goodness. I take back what I said about the last slide being my favorite topic ever, and this one’s going to bump up, but I am going to keep it as succinct as humanly possible. Imposter syndrome is that feeling of I’m an imposter, right? If they only knew who would trust me with this, I’m not an adult. I’m literally still a 20 something, maybe like 16, and it’s this feeling of I’m not supposed to be doing this. And if people found out who I was or what I was really like, it’s that feeling of like, Ooh, I think new parents feel this way. I’m not a parent, but I assume I know I felt that way as a new therapist. I felt that way as a practice owner. I felt that way two months ago when I launched a new consulting for therapist. I feel that way sometimes when I make endless YouTube videos.

(27:38):

I’m like, it’s really normal. And part of it is this completely irrational belief that we need to be an expert and we need to know everything. And asking for help and not knowing is somehow weak or not. And I’m really into mindfulness and meditation practices and beginner’s mind is everything and being humble and asking for help and asking for questions. And so here’s my take on imposter syndrome. If and when you experience it, even though the slide says how to fight it, I would argue that our task is to do the absolute opposite. Our task as humans is to welcome it, provide compassion, provide a familiarity like I see you, oh, this just validates that I’m human and I’m experiencing something new and scary. Look how brave I am for walking through this. The more that we talk about shame and imposter syndrome, the less they run our lives.

(28:38):

And so it’s not about how can I circumvent this whole experience and not feel it? Oh, I’m going to feel it. Can I normalize it? Think about what good therapy is amongst many things. It’s another human being saying to you, I see you and I hear you, and that’s valid. There’s a reason that is so healing. Most of us just need to be told that our experience is valid. I mean that’s like, whoa. So positive affirmations are phenomenal. I mean even just affirmations of I am human. This is normal, this is expected. Other people experience this. I think connection is a huge antidote. The more that I’ve connected with other people about imposter syndrome, shame and all these other topics, the more I find that’s what breeds connection, true, authentic connection, not look at the highlight reel of my life on Instagram. That’s not connection.

(29:37):

The amount of likes I’m getting is not connection. I have a lot of feelings about social media, but also I’m traumatized. I went on reality TV willingly, so that’s my own fault. Perfectionism is an illusion. Perfectionism is not being perfect is an illusion, and literally no one is. Perfectionism is real and human and can we treat ourselves the way that we would treat someone we really love or a child or dare I say, our child’s selves who is still very much present in us and activated by these new scary things. I don’t care how old you are, I don’t care how long you’ve been in whatever field you’ve been in, we are all just scared children doing our best to function. That’s a hot take. And so it helps us have compassion for other people too, that it’s not about us. They’re just doing something and we’re impacted by it. We’re not going to get into conflict resolution. That’s another webinar for another time. But I would just say you will experience imposter syndrome. Great. Welcome to the human experience, and can you be vulnerable and authentic about it with the people you trust and love?

Lori Cole (30:53):

When you said new parents experience this, I have a friend who said the day they were wrapping their baby up to bring her home, she was like, wait a minute, you’re going to let me take this baby. I don’t know what to do. I can’t believe you. You’re just going to hand this baby over to me and now I have to take it home and take care of it. So yeah, I’ve had that feeling the first day of jobs too. I can’t believe I have this job now. How am I going to make this go? They have no idea that I have no idea what I’m supposed to be doing on day one.

Hannah Rose (31:36):

Do you know what’s really beautiful about that? And this is probably different field to field, but I don’t actually think it is that different. According to Brené Brown, who is queen of health, big fan at my practice, which is a practice of therapists. I didn’t go to business school. I don’t know how to, I’m not businessy. See, I say that, but that’s an irrational narrative. I clearly am now, but I’m just honest when I don’t know. I think the reason we have such a high retention rate and my biggest win with my group practice is that therapists say this is healing my workplace trauma. And I’m like, I could go to sleep at night because I know that I’m doing good, is that our culture is the opposite of sterile. Sterile does not mean professional. And we do this thing at work where we put on our work face and we act a certain way.

(32:33):

If you watch me on Survivor, if you see me on this webinar and if you know me in real life, I am the exact same because I know who I am today and it changes. But you can have professional boundaries while not abandoning yourself to act like someone who is a professional adult. That’s what breeds imposter syndrome is acting like someone you’re not. And so for me, I’m just honest now, I mean it took years of painful ungraceful vulnerability, but I’m just honest and I’ve never met someone who says, oh, that’s really off putting that you’re having such a human experience. They’re like, oh, thank goodness you’re normal. That’s the feedback. And same thing when I’m interviewing people. They’re like, oh, you’re normal. I’m like, yeah, I’m not going to pretend like I will let you know in seven to 1000 business days. I’m just going to tell you in the interview anyway, again, this is a hot take, but I stand by it.

Lori Cole (33:35):

Alright, let’s talk a little bit about self-care. What are the sorts of things that we can do to really take care of ourselves whether we’re in a stressful job search or we’re just having something stressful going on in life in general?

Hannah Rose (33:53):

Whoa, so I would argue that it’s going to be tough to get to the physical health place if the mental health, of course, they’re so connected, but I know I’ve talked to countless people that have been told like, Hey, you’re depressed or you’re anxious or you’re stressed. You should go for a run. And they’re like, yeah, I’m not going to do that, right? Yeah, ideally, can you exercise? We know what it does to the brain. Yes, and if you’ve already unlocked that cycle for yourself and you’re at the place with exercise where you crave the positive benefits, great, keep doing that. But if you’re not there, it’s not a realistic goal to say, I’m only going to eat healthy food. I’m going to sleep nine hours a night and I’m going to go for a run and lift heavy weights. Whoa, let’s do the same thing we talked about in that slide about realistic goals.

(34:46):

Start by drinking more water and trying to sleep more. If you’re sleeping under eight hours and if you’re sitting at your house or wherever you are and you’re saying, I don’t need eight hours, Hannah, let me tell you that that is a lie. Sleep hygiene is one of the most important things. Again, separate webinar on sleep hygiene. I’m not a doctor, but I’m going to pretend I am about sleep hygiene. So set smaller, realistic goals. The book Atomic Habits is really phenomenal regarding smaller goals and ways to hack your brain. I’m a big habit girly anyway, so that book is just really validating. And then when we go to the mental health side, going from zero mindfulness or meditation experience to I’m going to sit and clear my mind and follow my breath again, let’s go realistic goals. Can you pause right now? This is not hypothetical. I’m asking every single person here to do it and blow out all the air, blow it all out, and you’re going to breathe in through your nose.

(35:51):

Hold it for a second at the top and then open mouth. Exhale. We are just going to do it one more time. In through your nose, hold open mouth. Exhale. What you just did was send cues to your nervous system that you are safe and you are okay. If we can just start with the breath. It sounds cliche and like, oh yeah, the breath. I know, I know, but how often do you focus on your breath? How often do you slow down and regulate your nervous system by changing the breath that you’re doing? In my courses on the Thriving Practice Academy, which is like how to become a therapist, how to start a private practice and how to scale a group practice, I incorporated mindfulness pauses that people will probably skip, but it’s just me taking them through breath work like, Hey, you can’t actually achieve X, Y and Z unless you’re taking care of this.

(36:50):

You can, but at what cost? And so I would say with mental health, again, start small. I’ve been meditating for a long time now, and sometimes I need to come back to the basics of like, I’m going to set a timer for three minutes. My brain is so scattered. And meditation does not mean clearing your mind. It is nonjudgmental awareness. I mean, it’s existed for way longer than America, but even just counting your breath, your breath, you will have thoughts. It’s not about not having thoughts. You will have thoughts. Can you notice nonjudgmentally and bring yourself back to the breath? It’s a practice and it actually changes the neurology of your brain. Very powerful. If you’ve never practiced gratitude, don’t start by making a 20 point gratitude list. Can you name one thing you are grateful for right now? Let’s do it right now. Everyone think of, you can put it in the chat, which I can’t see, but still one thing that you’re grateful for, I’m grateful.

(37:56):

I just thought about this. I looked outside and I saw a giant tree on its side. I live in Asheville, North Carolina, and while the wifi issues are annoying, I’m grateful that I’m not currently in a natural disaster. I was a year ago with the hurricane that hit Asheville, so I’m really grateful. I’ve got power, wifi, water cell service. I’m like, oh, yeah, oh yeah, okay, there’s gratitude. Next one. If you’ve never been kind to yourself or you think that self-love, et cetera is all this hokey new age, I don’t know. I’m a millennial, these whatever. If you think any of those things start small. What I used to say when I worked in a rehab with my patients was, name one thing you love about yourself. If you can’t name one thing you love about yourself, name one thing you like about yourself. If you can’t name one thing you like about yourself, what’s one thing you feel neutral about?

(38:52):

You don’t like it or love it or hate it. This is just a thing about myself. And we start really small and we open the door just a tiny bit and then we kick that door open over time and we’re like, holy moly, I am worthy of love and belonging. Which again, job search stuff brings up all of our deepest wounds because it’s all about we as humans pin our worth on our jobs. So it’s all connected. If you don’t feel like you have a support network, try to be open to places where you may be able to find that right? Family is not always the support network. Sometimes family be toxic as heck, and you need boundaries, right? Try to gravitate towards the people that you truly feel safe with psychologically and emotionally and reach out. Okay, yeah, that’s my thoughts on this slide. I just went for a long time.

Lori Cole (39:49):

That’s all right. Well, the other day when we were in practice, you said something like meditation. It doesn’t have to be you just sitting and staring at something. It can be you walking or you can just being quiet with yourself. So last couple of mornings I’ve done that. I’ve just been on the treadmill quiet with myself and it’s like, oh, I always feel like I need to be so productive. And so I would watch YouTubes on the treadmill or try to do something for work or think about my day and it’s like, okay, I’m just going to be me on the treadmill and whatever, and it’s quiet, and that really is different for me, just being quiet.

Hannah Rose (40:38):

I’m so excited for you. I’m like, because it’s life changing also. Rest is productive. Fun hobbies are productive. I love shows. Here are my hobbies. I love musical theater. I love working out. I love yoga. I love sitting on my couch. I love crocheting. I love playing the drums. I love books. I spend so much time watching shows. I love shows shamelessly, and you know what it does? It brings me joy. Rest. There’s a book called Rest is Resistance. You might want to read that too. There is this hustle, culture, productivity, and I get it, but people always say, we know you’re busy. And I say, I make a point of saying I’m actually not. My quality of life and my work-life balance is incredibly important to me. And so I make a point to have long parts of my schedule that are not filled to the brim and not blocked with anything. So I can do what I want, which is a privilege and a luxury and important to me. So rest is productive. And just noticing is probably the most productive thing you can actually do because it’s increasing mindfulness, which changes our whole lives.

Lori Cole (41:53):

So the last slide here is talking about seeking professional support when you need it. How do we know when it’s time to reach out and when it’s time to just stop trying to do it all on our own?

Hannah Rose (42:10):

Well, you know how I feel about this, Lori. I don’t think there’s a right time because I don’t think there’s a wrong time. I think we ideally can get away from this. I have to hit rock bottom. I need to hit a certain level of pain before reaching out. Let’s normalize just asking for help before stuff hits the fan. I’ll try not to swear. That’s the first time I almost sweared this whole time. Yay. And so for me, I like having a rapport and a relationship with a therapist when things are going well because then when stressful things happen, the foundation is already there and I have more tools. Obviously, if you’ve never been to therapy before, you’re likely not going to go when you’re on a winning streak. Wow, my life is so great. I’m going to go to therapy. It’s normal that the impetus is going to be something painful or stressful.

(43:03):

And I guess I would argue that if you’re asking yourself, should I go to therapy? There’s your answer, yes, if you want to and if you can. Luckily, we’ve got a lot of therapists that are in network with insurance and do sliding scale and there’s pro bono. But I love therapy not because I am a therapist, but because I was forced into therapy when I was a child and there’s nothing better if you’ve never done it. It’s like you get to have a rapport with a stranger whose only motive is to help you help yourself. Therapy is not someone telling you what to do and how to do it. It’s not about getting advice. If you’ve got a therapist that’s giving you advice left and right, that’s not therapy and it’s really beautiful. I think it’s pretty life-changing for me. I think getting sober when I did was pretty life-changing in hindsight, but going to therapy in my twenties really shifted a lot of unhealed, emotional wounds, all got ‘em.

(44:10):

And here’s a fun fact. Time does not heal all wounds. And so what you’re experiencing in relation to job search stress, it’s not even only about the job search stress, it’s all these other wounds that are being brought up. A therapist helps you to untangle those wounds and you can notice and you can have tools, and I’m a big fan also, if you are experiencing anxiety, depression, overwhelm, stress and overwhelm are very different depending on the level of how much these experiences are impairing your day-to-day life and functioning, ask for help. This notion of pulling yourself up from your bootstraps and doing it yourself is outdated. And also it’s traumatizing for so many people. And also the phrase, pull yourself up from your bootstraps actually meant do something that’s impossible because you physically can’t pull yourself up from your bootstraps. So stop trying and ask for help because that is courage to me. This is also, I got a lot of opinions to me. Not asking for help is more weakness than asking for help. Like shame-based, protect the bravado of your life and it’s like, or just be a human being and ask for help when you need it anyway. I love therapy.

Lori Cole (45:27):

Well, and the narrative around therapy has changed so much over the time. Even when I was a kid, I mean when I was little, it would be like they’re in therapy, but now it’s so many people are and it’s no big deal and it’s really better for you to reach out and get a little bit of help. So thank you for making that a normal thing for us to talk about. Alright, our recap here, me, it’s just taking my screen a little bit of time to change. So job search, stress is real. Create a job search routine and stick to it. Make sure that you’re setting those realistic goals for yourself. Get organized so that you can thrive so that you feel like you are sitting in a clean environment and an organized environment that’s going to not make you feel bad about where you are and what you’re doing in the moment. Say goodbye to imposter syndrome or maybe don’t say goodbye. Maybe just embrace it as Hannah has talked about and understand what it is and when you’re experiencing it, make sure that you can work on your self-care and work that into your routine and then seek that professional support. I love it when you said, if you’re asking yourself the question, should I go to therapy? You have your answer. That’s amazing. That is really great. So that’s good. Let’s go ahead and look at some of our questions we have here.

(47:16):

First one is, how do you handle stress when you feel your job is taking longer than expected?

Hannah Rose (47:25):

So I think stress management, I mean it’s so real. And here’s the thing about, we talked a lot about the internal and mental processes. The reality is that depending on the place that you’re in, one of the most stressful places you can be is not having an income. And so there’s a level of survival that comes up and it’s really fight, flight, freeze. We’re having a trauma response of security. And so I would say managing the stress, I think it’s different based on your individual scenarios and looking at what supports are in your area. I mean, I think support, I mean financial obviously, if there is that, but also the emotional support. Do not go through this alone, even if just talking to other people about it, taking care of yourself, I understand talking about self-care and meditating when you’re terrified about can you put food on the table?

(48:19):

Feels a little like, yeah, I’m not going to meditate that, which is a thousand percent valid. And so I think when we talk about job search stress, while everyone’s stress is valid, I do think we need to acknowledge, let’s say you’re in a job that you hate and you’re stressed because looking for another job, that’s still a very different scenario than being without a job and looking for a job. And so I just think meeting yourself where you’re at asking for and trying to seek out support emotionally, mentally, physically that you need. And again, I think like reframing rejection and setbacks, it’s harder when it is survival. So when it’s like, oh, this is impacting my ego, that’s really different than this is impacting my livelihood, which I do think a unique thing about job search stress. So I just wanted to validate all of that. I don’t know if that really answers how do I deal with stress? Because again, I don’t believe there’s a one size fits all. Like, oh, do this and you’re not going to be stressed. I don’t have that answer. I don’t think anyone has that answer. But if you can empower yourself to try different things, that’s what I would encourage you to do.

Lori Cole (49:29):

I’m also going to add, if you already have a job and you know that you want to get out of that job, don’t quit that job until you have another one lined up. I coached someone the other day and she was just very, she didn’t like her job and she was sick of it and she was ready to leave and so she put in her notice and it just was creating this horrible stress with this person because now what am I going to do? I’ve got a time limit now and I’m trying to find a very niche job. So don’t quit your current job until you have something else lined up that will help alleviate some of your stress. The best time to find a job is when you have a job. Alright, are there any quick mental exercises I can use before interviews to boost confidence?

Hannah Rose (50:25):

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean this part is where I strive. I think again, the more work that you’re doing between those interviews, not right before on your self image, the story you tell yourself about yourself, if you’re carrying shame left and right, you have those stories, those core irrational beliefs that you’re not good enough. You will bring that into an interview even if you tell yourself affirmations right before the interview. And so this is the importance of doing the internal healing in general. However, right before an interview, I would recommend a power stance, but looking in the mirror, talking to yourself and not planning, what is it, planning for the worst, but hoping for the best. I hate all of that, all of that. Your brain doesn’t differentiate planning for the worst. Your brain just experiences it twice if the worst does happen. You know what I mean?

(51:21):

On a nervous system level, everything is nervous system. And so I would recommend doing the work. The work I think is best facilitated in therapy. Again, if you don’t have an income and you don’t have healthcare, that’s hard. There are pro bono counseling places available, but nonetheless, I think affirmations, I am good enough. I’m worthy of love and belonging. I am worthy of this job. And then if you get the job, great. If you don’t get the job, my worthiness does not change based on a job offer or rejection. My worthiness is not defined by anything outside of myself. That’s where the work lies.

Lori Cole (52:00):

And I’ll also add that you are the expert on you. You’re about to go into an interview where they’re going to ask questions about you. You’re the expert on that topic, so you’ve got this, you know more about you and your experience and what you can do for them than anybody else. So you’ve just got to go in there and sell yourself. Okay. How can I politely ask for feedback from companies without feeling discouraged?

Hannah Rose (52:34):

Is the feedback what’s going to discourage you or is there a lack of response? What’s going to discourage you? I need a follow up. This is why in person one-on-one is helpful. I think when we ask for feedback, we also need to be ready to hear that feedback. And as humans, we are the main character of our own story, and we are the protagonist and we are the hero. And so when we hear feedback that we may not agree with or relate with, it can feel really disconcerting. Again, our self-worth may be really shaky. The feedback that I’ve gotten is the biggest one is that I speak too quickly, honestly. And people are like, you’re, but what my brain says is, oh, I’m too much. But that’s a shame narrative. And so I would say ask for feedback if you feel like you have the capacity to hear it. If you’re in a really fragile state, maybe don’t ask for the feedback because you will not receive it well internally. And also you can ask for feedback. Doesn’t mean they’re going to give it to you. And that’s where radical acceptance comes into play, what’s in my scope of control and what’s not. I can ask for what I need, but I cannot manage the outcome.

Lori Cole (53:42):

Alright. One more quick one before we wrap it up. Would it be okay to take a job that pays less and has a title that is lower than the one I’m currently in? How do you cope with that?

Hannah Rose (53:58):

Well, again, it’s so hard to answer these questions. I need more, need more details, I need more specifics. It’s like coping on a budget level on a financial level or coping on an ego level that I have now had to take a job that I feel like is less than because those are two really different answers. And I also think I don’t have an answer for you because those are two really different experiences. And again, I know whether it’s therapy or a career coach or having a consultant or someone that you can talk to or even a friend. I think this is why it’s really helpful is that I feel like in these q and as, it would be so great if I could say, oh, just do this and pretend I know. I don’t know. Because everyone is so different. Every situation is different, and then everyone’s own wounds that are being activated are different. And so I need more information to answer this. Also, I just want to say really quick, I don’t know how honest feedback is. I just saw that really quickly at the top of the chat. I dunno how honest feedback is and we can’t know how honest feedback is. We can just ask for it. And again, it’s like I can do my part and then take my hands out of it. That’s it. Everything else I don’t have control over.

Lori Cole (55:13):

Alright, well that’s all the time we have. Thank you so much for everybody who joined today and gave us your questions. Huge thank you to you, Hannah. We just love having you and I’m sure that we could go for another hour answering questions. Remember everybody to check your inbox tomorrow for a webinar replay along with an invite to our next session. Until then, just take care of yourself. Have a great day and the best of luck on your job search. Thanks, Hannah.

Hannah Rose (55:46):

Bye. Thank you.